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FDP Forum / Tin Pan Alley - Songwriting / Songwriting feedback

Previous 20 Messages  
benjybeaver
Contributing Member
****

USA - Illinois

Age is a number..."Old" is an attitude.
Nov 29th, 2008 06:02 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

also..is it my imagination or are there a few posts missing between me, snoggin and solomio? I think I missed something

Mauer and Verson

mark bjorke
Contributing Member
**********
*

Annapolis, MD

absence makes the heart grow fungus
Nov 29th, 2008 07:55 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Now I feel guilty for directing him here.



kve
Contributing Member
*

Crozet, VA

Nov 29th, 2008 08:06 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Actually, practice does seem to lead to perfection. Just be prepared to put in the time.

Songs sound like a lot of fun, snoggin. I think the suggestion to post one with lyrics is a good one.

Kevin

Another link (excerpt): http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/nov/15/malcolm-gladwell-outliers-extract

10.000 hours, baby!

mark bjorke
Contributing Member
**********
*

Annapolis, MD

absence makes the heart grow fungus
Nov 29th, 2008 08:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm of the opposite view. I'll read and comment on lyrics occasionally but the melody/performance is the most important thing in my opinion. It doesn't matter how great your lyrics are if I stop listening after 8 bars.

kve
Contributing Member
*

Crozet, VA

Nov 29th, 2008 08:20 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Mark: Actually I am 100% in agreement with you. The lyrics are only interesting to listeners if the "song" is good to begin with (melody and performance). However, this is a songwriting section and lyrics are a big part of the critiquing process.

Kevin

Solomio

Canada/Montreal

Nov 29th, 2008 08:38 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Just to clarify my point....it doesn't matter how many times you drive nails into a 2 x 4 if you don't know how to build a house it just ain't going to happen.
One has to learn by observation and by instruction.
Now I'm sure it can be argued that in our pop culture there are thousands & thousands of successful songwriters who knew dick about bridges, chorus, rhyme schemes, cadence, meter, prosody,AAA formats, internal rhymes, forced rhymes and on and on, let alone the matter of music, BUT, the more you know about songwriting chances are you'll end up writing better songs.
Bottom line....practice by itself does not make perfect. Practise is a means to perfection but without knowledge you going nowhere.
solomio
p.s. B.B. i think there is nothing ,missing ?

mark bjorke
Contributing Member
**********
*

Annapolis, MD

absence makes the heart grow fungus
Nov 29th, 2008 08:41 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If you don't listen to the songs you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this thread.

snoggin

usa

Nov 29th, 2008 09:36 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Solomio, I was not yelling and I used the YOU for emphasis not anger.

This is great I go awayfor the night and a thread erupts .. How cool is that?

I am quoting solomio again here

"Now I'm sure it can be argued that in our pop culture there are thousands & thousands of successful songwriters who knew dick about bridges, chorus, rhyme schemes, cadence, meter, prosody,AAA formats, internal rhymes, forced rhymes and on and on, let alone the matter of music, BUT, the more you know about songwriting chances are you'll end up writing better songs."

I didnt understand 10 percent of the content in there but I would bet you that 90 [percent of the Pop songs around were written from the the heart and in a short period of time without agonizing over content and construction.

I bet a lot of the best songs of all time were written in under an hour because they just "came out".

I see writing to be something like singing you have to get over yourself and allow the real you to emerge like a voice or anything else.

Like you say there are people who can buy all the equipment in the world, all the education, all thet training, all the bookish knowledge and still not do anything because they dont have the talent.

But if I dont try I will never know.

I'm going to take your suggestion about a song at a time and acompanying the lyrics along with so people dont have to decifer my mumbling.. Thats a great idea

Thanks, I am also goiing to listen to others work here and pass some comments along as well since we all like to get mail:)

Solomio

Canada/Montreal

Nov 29th, 2008 01:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Got to agree with you Mark.
And you Langford !
You know what..I'm going to agree with everybody for a change.
OK snoggin let 'er rip.
solomio

(This message was last edited by Solomio at 01:40 PM, Nov 29th, 2008)

benjybeaver
Contributing Member
****

USA - Illinois

Age is a number..."Old" is an attitude.
Nov 29th, 2008 01:40 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I think we are getting off point. Snoggin posted links to songs, with a request to have us listen and comment. I did that. The rest is semantics about "how" to write a song. I don't give a crap how a songwriter approaches their craft, unless they ask me for suggestions as to how I do it. They can be well read on mechanics or histrionics, or 100% natural and free flowing. Either is quite acceptable, unless there is some deficiency in the song itself, in which case, I would point out what may be lacking, and suggest a alternative path.

My point is, there is no "perfect" way to accomplish the outcome of a song. As seen here in this thread or forum, even well constructed songs have their detractors.

I will always say that "practice", i.e., trying new methods, ideas, theories, etc, IS the only way to approach perfection, however, perfection is esoteric, and ephemeral. It is the journey to being better.

JMHO

Mauer and Verson

snoggin

usa

Nov 29th, 2008 01:42 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I didnt say I am NOT trying to learn the craft but just maybe one needs to be careful not to let it get in the way.

I truly am a neophyte so obviously all this is IMHO which could surely change over time with experience

Bar-czar
Contributing Member
****

Chicago

Too loud man...... too loud
Nov 30th, 2008 06:01 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

A little perspective. I've been reading this thread for a couple a days now and I'd like to throw a couple of things out there. I agree with a lot of what has been said on both sides but, some of us are forgetting what this forum is intended for. Obliviously, people post in this forum to be heard and critqued by thier peers. I'll use me as an example. I've been playing music for over 25 years. I am not a proffesional, but always had a passion for songwriting. I have an idea, and I put a lot of hours into it. Now, I would like someone to listen to it and tell me what they think. Constructive criticism is welcomed. And I take each comment with a grain of salt. Anyone with a FDP monker and google can be an expert at anything. No one here as far as I know is a producer or proffessional songwriter. So comments should be more helpful than critical.

Sol, I've read quite a few of your posts and you seem to think of yourself as an expert in songwriting. Maybe this is true. If you could post your qualifications your comments might carry more weight.

Lastly, songs are posted as creative works. They may not be commercial works. So when listening, don't expect it to be top forty hit. Although I agree with Marks comment,"It doesn't matter how great your lyrics are if I stop listening after 8 bars." Let's not judge things too harshly. People should not be afraid of posting here because they fear they will be crapped on.

We're all in the boat here. Let's help each other and maybe some day someone will hit it big and split the royalties with us. :)

BC




Solomio

Canada/Montreal

Nov 30th, 2008 07:16 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nice positive post BC but you've got me wrong. I was merely stating my opinion that practicing with a faulty template will only yield faulty results.
As it is only my opinion 'fraid you'll have to take it with a grain of salt with or without my credentials.
Lets move forward shall we?

solomio

benjybeaver
Contributing Member
****

USA - Illinois

Age is a number..."Old" is an attitude.
Nov 30th, 2008 07:49 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Nice positive post BC but you've got me wrong. I was merely stating my opinion that practicing with a faulty template will only yield faulty results."

You see, Solomio, here's my problem. You have alluded to a "faulty template" several times here. Are you generalizing, or citing something specific in the compositions Snoggin posted? If you are generalizing, and not reviewing Snoggin's material, say so. If you are applying your statement to Snoggin's material, please cite specifics that define the statement you are making.

I for one have been writing for 30 years+ (FWIW). I cannot in my listening to these songs, find any evidence that Snoggin is in anyway deficient in his composition. He has skills, craft, and delivery. You can subjectively like or dislike it, but I see nothing that defines the objective you are trying to make a case for in terms of deficient technique or knowledge base.

This is bothering me because there are 22 posts so far, and Kevin and I seem to be the only ones who have listened to these tunes and commented, as Snoggin requested. The rest has been off point BS about implied or inferred technique

Mauer and Verson

snoggin

usa

Nov 30th, 2008 07:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thats what I was saying originally Sol. You say I have a lot to learn but wont say what. How would you make what I did better?

mark bjorke
Contributing Member
**********
*

Annapolis, MD

absence makes the heart grow fungus
Nov 30th, 2008 08:20 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I commented on the one in particular that started this mess elsewhere.

Solomio

Canada/Montreal

Nov 30th, 2008 08:32 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

My dear God gentlemen will you please drop this.
BB I clearly stated on Nov 28...in replying to snoggin"...I hadn't listened to your stuff and I commented only on your statement....."

Thats it!
The rest is BS, actually me trying to extricate myself from this barrage of flak.

Snoggin I have NOT critiqued your songs only the statment that "practice makes perfect "

Now as most everybody reading my statements is misinterpreting my intended meaning I can only surmise that a pack mentality has taken over and you are simply trying to torment me :>) or the words I chose to use are of an inflammatory nature.

In any event soggin please do not be put off by the direction this thread has taken. It is indeed an abberation.
Please DO post a song and a set of lyrics and if I can offer up any tasty morsels of song writing wisdom I will o.k.?
I do however look at songs in terms of traditional theorys and techniques and commercial viability and I do appreciate perhaps more than most a good set of lyrics.
An example of this would be in conversation with someone the other day who was talking about the new Guns & Roses CD I was more interested in what was being said in the songs as opposed to the music, I was curious after all these years what Axl would be saying/talking about.

Thankfully I will say no more in way of explaining myself.

solomio



Bar-czar
Contributing Member
****

Chicago

Too loud man...... too loud
Nov 30th, 2008 10:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sol, I'd really like to better understand where your coming from. Name a couple of examples of songs that exemplifies good songwriting. And describe what it is about them that makes them good. Since a lot of what we like and consider good is perception, I'm curious to what your choices would be. (No BS)

BC



Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Tin Pan Alley - Songwriting / Songwriting feedback




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