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FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / Bassman comparison
(This message was last edited by SoK66 at 08:30 AM, May 25th, 2012)
(This message was last edited by 1958Bassman at 09:06 PM, Jun 2nd, 2012)
FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / Bassman comparison
Frank NJ
USAMay 23rd, 2012 06:43 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Has anyone compared a 58 or 59 bassman to a reissue? 90's or LTD. What are your thoughts. Are they close tonewise? are they close at all?
SoK66
Contributing Member
****
USA
We had the hit but Van got the moneyMay 24th, 2012 07:51 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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In the end, the Bassman RI is a great amp, but has its own voice. Probably the best bargain in the reissue line. Not really the same as an original, though. Having had quite a bit of seat time with a few of the original 5F6-As I was disappointed in the reissue. I bought one new in '91 and it sat around the house gathering dust. It needed a tube rectifier in place of the plug-in SS thing they early ones had, and some good tubes, which helped a lot. I also added a bias pot as the first series didn't have one. All this perked it up significantly. Still sounded more like a Marshall to me than it did the original. When I dug into comparing the circuits I found a couple key changes. First is the reissues run about exactly like an original at today's line voltages. B+ / plate voltage is something like 480vdc, rather than 440. You can bring that down with a buck transfomer, variac, etc. The other is that Fender increased the capacitance from the power supply through to the preamp, which sees about 8 times what the original has (44uf vs 8uf). The early ones used a plywood cabinet, the LTD uses solid pine. There's a bit of difference there as well.
barry.b
australiaMay 24th, 2012 09:58 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"First is the reissues run about exactly like an original at today's line voltages. B+ / plate voltage is something like 480vdc, rather than 440."
so you're saying that, thanks to today's line voltages being 120v not 110, the vintage bassmans have a different B+ plate voltage to when they were first made, but the reissues does the same?
"The other is that Fender increased the capacitance from the power supply through to the preamp, which sees about 8 times what the original has (44uf vs 8uf)"
are you talking about the actual power supply and an improved ability to resist sag when pushed, compared to the originals?
amphead4
Cincinnati, USAMay 25th, 2012 06:33 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"are you talking about the actual power supply and an improved ability to resist sag when pushed, compared to the originals?"
A change but not necessarily an improvement for guitar.
SoK66
Contributing Member
****
USA
We had the hit but Van got the moneyMay 25th, 2012 08:28 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"so you're saying that, thanks to today's line voltages being 120v not 110, the vintage bassmans have a different B+ plate voltage to when they were first made, but the reissues does the same?"
Yes, the PT on the reissue isn't voltage compensated. With the early ones using the SS rectifier the plates can see over 500v.
" are you talking about the actual power supply and an improved ability to resist sag when pushed, compared to the originals?"
Yes, the first stage of the power supply is 2x 100uf caps in series, i.e. 50uf vs the originals 2x 40uf. They also use 2x 47uf caps in series on the screens vs 20uf, essentially the same, but the voltage capacity is increased due to the series scheme.
The slight increase on the first stage, combined with the SS rectifier and 44 uf capacitance on the preamp (2x 22ufs in parallel) changes the feel of the amp significantly. Much tighter, but that's not what a tweed Bassman's all about. As amphead4 says, it's s change, but not necessarily for the better.
All this is JMHO, of course. You may try it and think it's great. In the end I converted mine to PTP, mostly because it was a mountain and it was there. Everyone who plays it loves the thing. I put a write up about it in the new amps section a few years ago IIRC.
SoK66
Contributing Member
****
USA
We had the hit but Van got the moneyMay 25th, 2012 08:35 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Here's all the stuff you swap out when you do the conversion.
Frank NJ
USAMay 25th, 2012 08:23 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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So i did a comparison last week. the 2 amps side by side. a 58 and a 90's reissue with a tube rectifire. the new one was much louder, tons more headroom. it sounded good but way to loud to get to the sweetspot. the old one distorted right away and got better till about half way on the volume pot, then kind got mushy. It all depends on what you like better. Headroom or a fat rich tone monster. in a nut shell the new one is more suitable for a big stage ie. the garden. one the old one is just perfect for any venue. Thats my 2 cents. I don't know much about electronics but it seems to me that my comparison and sok66 kind of add up!
1958Bassman
USAJun 2nd, 2012 06:36 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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If the '58 was a lot quieter, it may need caps, may have a different V1, rectifier or output tubes. My '58 is loud as hell and Gristleman has used it at the same time as his 59RI amp. Oh, yeah, it was a noisy night. Mine is an old chassis but has the RI cabinet, early Eminence RI speakers and all of the hardware. When he used it first, it had the GT SS rectifier but I have since changed to a tube. Even with a tube rectifier, it doesn't sag much.
The main difference between the two was in warmth- mine is warmer but I didn't make note of the control settings.
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