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FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Need help with an overdrive question . . .
(This message was last edited by 6 Cylinder Slim at 07:50 AM, Jun 20th, 2012)
FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Need help with an overdrive question . . .
Previous 20 Messages
AceLuby
MN
Workin on my chopsJun 8th, 2012 12:06 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"Will the HT-Dual be a better bet for this type of application?"
Dude, it's $250 for that thing, just spend an extra $100 and get a used tube amp. Any OD pedal you have will give you something a lot closer to what you're looking for, or just turn it up and use the volume on your guitar to get the drive you want.
Marty A.
USAJun 8th, 2012 12:31 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Ace: I hear ya' . . . I don't want another pedal if I can help it. That's why I asked about the Valve King VK212, which I can get used. I have my HT-Drive and HT-Boost on craig's list for sale, I just don't want to buy the Valve King if it won't do the job I'm hoping for.
AceLuby
MN
Workin on my chopsJun 8th, 2012 02:37 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I'd look at the pro jr, blues jr, or AC 30 before a valve king personally. I've got a hot rod deluxe that you can find used in the $4-500 range that I'd highly recommend if you're using pedals for grit as it takes pedals wonderfully. If you've got a GC around you check out some of the sub $500 amps, see what you like, and then try to find one on the used market. I'd get away from pedals until you've got a decent amp to put them in front of.
stinger22
USAJun 10th, 2012 02:12 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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+1 on just getting a Mustang 3!
mroulier
Contributing Member
*****
Suburban MD.
Ask me about my BlowCoat(tm)!Jun 11th, 2012 10:20 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I shoulda said at the beginning, and Tyrone reminded me.
Get a Peavey Classic 30. They can be had on CL for about $300.
Marty A.
USAJun 11th, 2012 02:17 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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How about this: Peavey 100 classic vt series 212?
Marty A.
USAJun 12th, 2012 08:28 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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What about the Classic 50/212?
mroulier
Contributing Member
*****
Suburban MD.
Ask me about my BlowCoat(tm)!Jun 12th, 2012 08:41 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"What about the Classic 50/212?"
Yes, same OD circuit, but they do go for more money.
6 Cylinder Slim
New England
Shoes for IndustryJun 13th, 2012 09:10 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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The Classic 50 would be too loud for any of the bands I've played with. The trick is to pick the power of the tube amp according to the stage volume you're likely to need in the band, put a Tube Screamer in front of it and run the amp as loud as it gets before it starts to distort. That way, when you add the extra gain from the TS, you can balance some distortion from the pedal with the natural distortion from the amp to arrive at the distortion level you want. There's your bite and compression. But...gotta admit, totally processed sounds have come a long way. I bought a Mustang 3 for rehearsals and it really does have a bunch of nice overdrive tones that you can use at any volume level. Nobody else on this board complained about it, but I found the patch bypass tone controls to be awful and the 2 button footswitch that came with the amp has no display to tell you what patch number is active. Now, there's a Mustang Floor unit that solves both of those problems since it has a display and you can use your amp's tone controls as a master. Might be worth hauling your amp to a music store and trying it.
Marty A.
USAJun 13th, 2012 01:01 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Slim . . . Thanks for the advice. It sounds like I am back in the mode of buying more pedals (I don't own a TS.) Without the Tube Screamer, is the overdrive "bite" not happening with that (or any) amp?
6 Cylinder Slim
New England
Shoes for IndustryJun 14th, 2012 06:05 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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There's so many new pedals out there that it's hard to say, but I can tell you that, with the blues guys, a TS in front of a tube amp is a very common and good sounding combination. Personally, I'm still using an AC powered Tube Driver I bought in the 80s with a Princeton Reverb. It's still the same idea though. The unit on it's own doesn't sound very good. It's a matter of using the added gain from the pedal to push the amp into distortion. You can blend in some distortion from the pedal, but it's mostly the clipping from amps tubes that gives you that classic overdrive tone.
Marty A.
USAJun 14th, 2012 09:07 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Not trying to be redundant, you're saying the Peavey Classic 50/212 on it's own doesn't sound very good?
6 Cylinder Slim
New England
Shoes for IndustryJun 15th, 2012 04:42 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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No, I mean the distortion from the pedal without overdriving the tubes in the amp. I guess a lot of us had the idea of "good" set in our minds from the days of boosting the guitar signal with a gadget of some sort and cranking a tube amp up loud. Manufacturers then added more gain stages to their amps and footswitches to click on distortion from the preamp section. Players said...sure it distorts, but it doesn't sound as "good" as my Les Paul and Rangemaster with my Marshall on 10. It did sound different, but what's good is in the mind of the player. All these years of pedals, power attenuators and channel switching amps and still, nothing sounds quite like a hot pickup through a cranked Bassman. But truthfully, what sounds good, is all a matter of opinion.
Marty A.
USAJun 15th, 2012 07:14 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Thanks, Slim . . . I may bite the bullet and get a Classic 50/212 that I can get used for about $350.00. I think that makes sense . . . Any other opinions before I take the plunge?
Marty A.
USAJun 15th, 2012 07:16 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Just saw this for sale: Ashdown Fallen Angel 2x12. Is this a better choice than the Peavey?
Tyrone Shuz
USA
I'm all in!Jun 17th, 2012 12:27 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I'm not familiar with Ashdown, heard decent things, but I know nothing.
IN MY OPINION, as a pro guitarist for my entire adult life--I did MANY gigs with just the C30 and the channel changer, ZERO other pedals. The OD channel sounds WONDERFUL. Nobody EVER gave me grief about my tone with that rig.
I also had a Classic 50 head w/a 2x12 cab. That sounded monstrous.
BIG NOTE: The C30 and C50 do NOT have to be loud to sound great! The C50 has a global master which is nice, though not truly linear, in other words, you set your OD and Clean volume, and in theory, use the master to set the overall volume, and raise and lower to taste. But when you raise and lower the master, the proportions (or perceived proportions) between clean and dirty change a little bit.
I eventually went to a C30 with a TS808. My main sounds were the C30 itself, but with the TS808 I now had 4 sounds--C30 clean; C30 with TS808 (edgy sound); C30 OD channel, pretty crunchy; C30 OD with TS808--liquid lead.
IMO, the C30's overdrive channel is its strong suit. The clean is good to very good, the reverb is OK/usable, and the OD rocks. The C30 and C50 are essentially the same amp, but the 50 is a wee bit louder, and the C30 is more portable, and still plenty loud. The C50 combo gets kinda weighty, especially if you replace the speakers with something better. That's why I had a C30 combo and also a C50 head plus a 2 x 12 closed cab.
I've played through the 2x12 C50 combo, and if you don't mind moving it, it sounds terrific.
As for the Peavey's OD channel, with weak single coil pickups, set the "pre" on the OD channel close to full up, but if you use stronger single coil pickups or 'buckers, you'll want to back it down to maybe 1:00 or 2:00 (the numbers go to 12, so that's around 7 or 8). The "Post" is simply how loud you want the OD channel to be in relation to your clean. If you use a TS in front of it, you can back the "pre" down to 3/4 or perhaps less with weak pickups, and about 1/2 or so for stronger ones.
Even if you don't like the OD channel, the clean channel can be pushed, and takes pedals well.
I think the only folks who don't like the OD channel on these amps are those that spend over 4x the cost of a used C30 on their amp, which is fine.
I no longer own my Peavey classics because I too have better gear--but it was a WHOLE lot more dough. If I had to start from scratch on a budget like yours, I'd do exactly as I'm advising you to do--get a C30! And make sure you get the footswitch with it, or buy it separately (it's about $25 nowadays.)
Marty A.
USAJun 18th, 2012 01:43 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Thanks, Tyrone. Anyone have any thoughts on an Ampeg VT-22 212? Just found one that caught my eye.
BrentD
Contributing Member
****
Lansing, MI
My CVR is noisy, but so is my playing!Jun 18th, 2012 03:49 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Marty, can you name exactly the kind of tone you're looking for? You mentioned some genres, but those are too broad. What kinds of tones do you want guitarist-wise? Clapton? Hendrix? May? Van Halen?
I'm not trying to be a stinker. But if you want a particular tone you should try to find out what makes that tone special. This helps you to make decisions regarding gear that are better for you in the long run.
Marty A.
USAJun 18th, 2012 05:51 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Brent . . . great point. So here are a few of my fav guitarists/sounds . . .
Bruce Springsteen
Stevie Ray Vaughan
B.B. King
Brad Paisley
George Thoroughgood
Mark Knopfler
Does that help at all . . . sorry for the wide list.
6 Cylinder Slim
New England
Shoes for IndustryJun 20th, 2012 07:22 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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A thing to realize is that the tone you hear on those recordings or live performances does not come from a guitar and amp alone. It is also shaped by the sound of the other instruments that surround it. The sounds you hear on those big buck recordings are mixed by people with serious skill levels. Final mixdown is an art form in it's own right. There is always some frequency masking. How well a mix is managed means everything in how you hear the tone of a guitar on a record or live performance. That said, there's still the issue of the original tone that comes from the guitarist's amp. Everybody has different opinions about things like preamp tube distortion vs power tube distortion, different tubes, different circuitry, pickups ect. The guitarists on your list have a wide range of opinions about that. I do know that SRV was a crank the amp up loud and push it with a TS sort of guy while Brad Paisley is more technical minded to the point of having someone off stage running his amps and effects for him.
Previous 20 Messages
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