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FDP Forum / Fender Amps: 1985 - Current / I want to buy a Tweed Fender- need advice!
(This message was last edited by BrentD at 06:50 AM, Jul 16th, 2012)
(This message was last edited by bmeredith at 09:46 AM, Jul 17th, 2012)
(This message was last edited by mullardgz34 at 12:23 PM, Jul 30th, 2012)
(This message was last edited by urby at 03:33 PM, Jul 31st, 2012)
FDP Forum / Fender Amps: 1985 - Current / I want to buy a Tweed Fender- need advice!
Deep
Kathmandu, Nepal.
and your strange bewildering times...Jul 16th, 2012 04:21 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I play small to medium clubs and bars. Use the 20 watter Marshall 2061X head and cab or a 15 watter Pro Junior or my 1966 Princeton Reverb. My amps are mic'ed thru the PA ninety percent of the time.
Low watt amps work fine for my situation so trying to keep things below 20 watts max. I've always had the Tweed Fender amp itch since a long time and I know exactly what model I want- Its the '57 Tweed Deluxe RI!
These things are expensive new! Are these amps common to see on the used market? I checked ebay and there was only two used units so I'm guessing not. Whats a decent price for a used but in great condition 57 Deluxe RI? Any other advice on anything related to this amp is welcome. Thank you in advance!
BrentD
Contributing Member
****
Lansing, MI
My CVR is noisy, but so is my playing!Jul 16th, 2012 06:49 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I saw a used one in great condition except without the cover. It was at a place that is usually on the higher end of reasonable, and I think it was about $1300.
SpiroGiro
YorkshireUKJul 16th, 2012 09:37 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I have one but had to bite the bullet as you never see used ones... you see the 57 Twins sometimes.
One Q - are you a confident player? Cos if not, playing one live is like standing up on stage in your ragged undies...!
BrentD
Contributing Member
****
Lansing, MI
My CVR is noisy, but so is my playing!Jul 16th, 2012 11:00 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Same place has a used 57 Twin for about $1700 IIRC.
ecwanab
MoJo, Minnesota
Jump in and hang onJul 16th, 2012 01:59 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I just sold a mint one with cover on CL for $1050. It was listed for $1100 for almost two months.
bmeredith
Contributing Member
*****
USA
Happiness is a warm tube ampJul 17th, 2012 09:40 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Just be patient. They pop up on eBay from time to time. That's where I got mine. I think I paid about 12 or 1300 for it. This was 2-3 years ago when the new ones were still in production.
I love this amp, although I don't use it very often (I've also got a DRRI that I use much more). It's got the killer tweed crunch at "reasonable" volumes. I did put a Celestion Blue in mine to give it a little extra for gigging, as it was getting drowned out a little with the stock Jensen in it. I also had to fix some upper back panel rattling myself with some felt pads, but now it's rattle free. I think that's pretty common with these amps.
Edit to add: You should hear the thing cranked with an open-G Tele going through it. Unbelievable!
PCR
PAJul 26th, 2012 12:09 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Deals are out there. I traded my 57 VHR Strat that I was getting ready to sell for a mint 57 DLX RI. It's a nice amp.
SKI
Contributing Member
********
MaineJul 29th, 2012 02:27 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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There are some 5E3 clones out there that are just as good and arguably better than the Fender reissue. Keep an eye out for the Clark or Victoria on the used market. Or, check out some kits. You can have a kit built for you for new for about the same that a name brand would cost used.
I have a Clark and it's a fantastic amp. I've talked to many pro players that share the opinion that Clark comes closest to the original 5E3 amps (not always a good thing).
Deacon Blues
Stay interesting my
friends.-The world's thirstiest man.Jul 30th, 2012 07:22 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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^this
I slightly prefer Victoria over Clark, but both are a better alternative, IMHO, than the '57 RI.
mullardgz34
USAJul 30th, 2012 11:59 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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From Victoria Amps:
-14 watts of power
-5E3 Type Circuit
-Class A Cathode Bias Push/Pull Operation
-Tubes: 1-5Y3, 2-6V6GT, 1-12AX7, 1-12AY7
-Speaker: Eminence Legend 12” or Jensen P12Q
-Cabinet Size(HxWxD): 16.5”x20”x10”
-Weight: 30 lbs.
I don't trust an amp company if they say they are getting 14 watts from two 6V6's in Class A operation. If the amp were setup for class A the plate voltage would be lower than original Tweed Deluxe and it would only put out around 10 watts. Which would not sound like a Tweed Deluxe! It scares me to think that they make amps but don't understand a simple thing like what operational mode a Tweed Deluxe is operating in. I think the cathode bias is why they think it's class A, for whatever reason I do not know but it is a class AB amp.
It's like buying a car that is suppose to get 32MPG and it actually only gets 15MPG. Class A amps the output tubes are conducting current at all times so it chews up tubes quick and also is the least efficient method because you waste power into heat. At idle the Tweed Deluxe is operating closer to class A but as soon as a signal hits it self bias' itself down to class AB.
mullardgz34
USAJul 30th, 2012 12:09 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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On another note Clark claims they get 18watts from two 6V6's so I am not sure if it is cathode bias. If it is cathode bias then maybe they run the voltage a little hotter than original Tweed Deluxe's to get more wattage? All the Tweed Deluxe's I build have 350-360 volts at the plates and from cathode bias I get around 14 watts which is closer to the original.
Anyway the Tweed Deluxe is a great amp and sounds amazing! I don't think you will be complaining if you get one.
Deacon Blues
Stay interesting my
friends.-The world's thirstiest man.Jul 30th, 2012 02:46 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Regardless of what you think. My ears tell me that either amp from either company will sound like the best 5E3 you've ever heard. Mission amps offers a kit or a complete build of the 5E3 that's very nice, also.
mullardgz34
USAJul 30th, 2012 04:42 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I was just pointing out that both Clarke and Victoria make a 5E3 amp but claim different specs for the same circuit.
Not saying they sound bad, but power output is not an exact number because there is too many variables (frequency, transconductance of tubes, etc..) So basically the power output is actually all over the place in the real world.
My main concern was that the Tweed Deluxe is not a class A amp as Victoria states.
BrentD
Contributing Member
****
Lansing, MI
My CVR is noisy, but so is my playing!Jul 30th, 2012 04:45 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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When I looked at used ones, the place had a 57 RI and a Clark, and the Clark was $100 more. It had a reverb unit hidden in the back along with an attenuator, and although it sounded great I think the whole point of getting the 5E3 (other than tone) was to avoid all of that extra stuff. The Fender was cheaper, lighter, and simpler at the time.
The clones and kits are fine, but I wouldn't rain on anyone's parade for wanting one that says "Fender" on it.
SKI
Contributing Member
********
MaineJul 30th, 2012 06:41 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Clark offers options to the basic 5E3 circuit for additional $$$. Those include reverb unit inside the cab and the attenuator. The straight 5E3 clone would cost less and be closer to an original 5E3.
I've heard that the Victoria is a little tighter sounding on the low end compared to the Clark, which can be a bit flabby and spongy - characteristics that were found in the originals. I know that some prefer the Victoria in a live situation because it helps cut through the mix a little better compared to the Clark. Of course, it's all subjective and depends on the style of music you play, band dynamics, etc. Bottom line, they're both highly regarded amps for very good reason.
I've also played through a Mission kit and it was a very good amp. You could tell the difference between that and the Clark when they were side by side; but the difference would likely become negligible in the context of a band situation.
urby
Contributing Member
********
Warshington StateJul 31st, 2012 01:16 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I'm pretty sure Clark uses a custom wound output transformer in the Beaufort that produces less power output than the OT in the Fender '57.
A couple years back I played my Beaufort with a Weber P12R, a real Fender 1958 Deluxe with it's original Jensen Alnico speaker and the Fender '57 Deluxe with stock Jensen reissue side by side (by side).
The Fender '57 was way louder than the the '58 or the Clark. Plus the Fender '57 was pretty harsh sounding to my ears. The '58 had it up on the other two amps but my Clark had a softer yet creamier sound more closer to the '58 to my ears than the Fender '57.
I've owned the Beaufort for 10 years and it just gets better and better sounding all of the time. Recently I was just asked if I was interested to sell it. After plugging a Tele into it and an hours worth of playing I graciously declined. I'll be holding onto this one.
mullardgz34
USAJul 31st, 2012 02:43 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Couple of questions for urby.
When you did the side by side by side comparison, was a 12AY7 in V1 for all amps? I believe the 57 Deluxe reissue has a 12AX7 in V1 which could account for the harshness.
Also was the speaker in the reissue a P12Q? If it was it will be a bit different than the P12R do to the larger magnet 10.5 oz appose to the P12R's 7 oz. And larger voice coil 1.25" to the P12R's 1"
I am not sure about the beaufort but I do know that the reissue has 470 ohm screen resistors and the original does not. I find that I do not like the sound of the screen resistors in the 5E3 and I do not have them in mine. On an amp with a choke it is a good idea to have them but this amp does not need them. I am willing to bet if you bypass the screen resistors in the 57 Deluxe reissue you will be a lot happier with the sound.
urby
Contributing Member
********
Warshington StateJul 31st, 2012 03:29 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"I believe the 57 Deluxe reissue has a 12AX7 in V1 which could account for the harshness."
The Fender 57 reissue was stock and I do remember wondering why Fender put 2 12AX7s in the preamp. We did trade it out with the Amperex 12AY7 out of my amp, which did tame the harshness quite a bit. It also had the stock Jensen RI speaker.
As far as screen resistors and chokes and all, that is beyond my expertise. I'm sure if you knew what you were doing you could tweak the Fender 57 into sounding closer to the real thing. I only remember what it sounded like stock.
When I bought my Clark, it was stock. Nothing's been changed and it's my fave low volume amp. Last year I bought a Clark Tyger and that thing is unbelievable! He just makes great amps.
My only expertise is that I've been using electric guitars and amps on a continual basis for 40 years and I know what I like.
TweedDogSteve
CanadaAug 1st, 2012 09:53 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Deep - You should also check the new Wampler Tweed 57 pedal....plenty of good quality demos on youtube. I bought it a month ago just based on those youtube demos,,,,and the real thing is absolutely outstanding, the tone I have been looking for all my life!
urby
Contributing Member
********
Warshington StateAug 1st, 2012 06:43 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Not that I'd sell my Tweed amps but that Wampler pedal sounds pretty good in the demos. I'd be interested in trying one out.
Brian makes some real nice stuff. I use one of his Faux Spring Reverb pedals which I think sound superb.
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