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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / My *All-Encompassing Tele* Challenge: #WIRING

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jakezaaq

United States

Telecastrado
May 30th, 2018 03:03 AM   Edit   Profile  

Background: I want my studio Blackout Telecaster (almost like a Nashville) to have all or at least MOST of the wiring options attached (see link).

Also, I'm changing the middle pickup for a duckbucker, by the way.

Since you guys are into mods, I'd figure I'll give it a try.

Some people said they need to route into the wood, 6 switches, etc etc.
Some mentioned Brian May, Jimmy Page, Brent Mason, Baja tele...
But their wiring does not include all of these: out of phase, parallel, series, and 5-way & Bridge/Neck & Bridge/Mid/Neck position.

In the end I need a wiring diagram which is not too crazy but would include the best PU combinations from my list

Click here for pic of my wiring preferences and rig

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

May 30th, 2018 08:16 AM   Edit   Profile  

I personally doubt that you'll ever use all those combinations, however an email to tech@dimarzio.com would probably be your best course of action.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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A dog

in a cake shop
May 30th, 2018 08:32 AM   Edit   Profile  

Welcome to the FDP.

Guitar techs discouraged you? I find that very difficult to believe because this is totally doable and they are turning away business by blowing you off. Hmmm.

But like Pinetree says above, not all of these combinations are really useful because the differences between some of the pickup combinations are extremely subtle.

As a thought experiment (which I think this really is), it's probably doable with four three-position DPDT toggles, a volume pot, and a tone pot. Three switches would be for the three individual pickups (in phase, off, out of phase--like on a Mustang) and one switch for series/parallel. There is absolutely no need to rout anything.

Another option (if you're stuck on the classic lever switch) is the Oak Grigsby

Superswitch

(This message was last edited by Peegoo at 10:33 AM, May 30th, 2018)

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 30th, 2018 11:29 AM   Edit   Profile  

I'll give this some thought, but right off the bat "M out of phase" is meaningless, you have to have two pickups to have an out-of-phase relationship.

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
May 30th, 2018 01:08 PM   Edit   Profile  

My immediate thought is that I think most of it can be done with a 5-way super switch, another switch to go from stock 3-pickup 5-way wiring to something else, a series/parallel switch for the neck pickup to everything else, and a simple phase switch for the bridge pickup.


wrnchbndr

New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
May 30th, 2018 03:17 PM   Edit   Profile  

I'm one that discourages such things but if you gotta get it out of your system, I'll toss in a few suggestions and maybe work on a diagram that at least gets you closer.

Get a second pickguard to be your experimentation victim.

Put three 2-position slide switches in the upper portion of your pickguard. These will be for your phase selection - one for each pickup. The wires from the pickups will go directly to these switches and the same number of wires will depart from these switches thus simplifying this area.

A 5-position super switch and a single 2-position toggle switch will yield you ten selections along with the ability to change the phase of each pickup via the slide switches. I'm thinking that one half of the super switch can operate in normal mode and the other half ought to be able to handle the pickups in series selection.

I tried to do a diagram with 2PST switch but there are problems with ground so I'm thinking that maybe a 3PST might be necessary.

You need to avoid attaching half a coil under all switching circumstances or it will create noise.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 30th, 2018 03:37 PM   Edit   Profile  

I'd be curious to hear how you concluded that those are the combinations you want.

Aside from that, what you ask for is doable, but not easy. Forget about using a 4-pole, 5-way switch, even a Superswitch. Not enough poles.

You could do it with 3 or 4 toggle switches and a 2-position rotary switch, as follows:

For the neck pickup, a 3P2T on-on switch for the on/off function.

For the middle pickup, same setup as for the neck.

For the bridge pickup, either a DPDT on-on switch for the on/off function and a DPDT phase switch, OR, a single DP3T on-off-on switch for an on/off/on-out-of-phase function,

Also, a 5P2T rotary mode switch for the parallel/series function. These switches are easily available on eBay for about $5.

This would get you everything you asked for (and some things you didn't ask for) except the series/parallel combination of N+(M*B').

All this presupposes a single tone control and a master volume control.

In practice, you'd first set the mode switch to either parallel or series, then flip ON the pickups you want, and, if B is on, whether you want it in or out of phase. Pretty straightforward.

Whether this could be done with no body routing is iffy. A new pickguard is a given.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 30th, 2018 06:09 PM   Edit   Profile  

And I should have mentioned that there is another alternative, which is pretty cRaZy but in some ways the most elegant.

That's to have TWO independent 5-way switches (one for parallel mode and one for series mode), a rotary 5PDT series/parallel switch, a neck ON toggle or push-pull switch which only works in parallel mode, and a bridge phase toggle or push-pull switch which works in either mode.

The 5-way switch for parallel mode can just be a Strat switch, and acts like one. The neck ON switch adds N+B and N+M+B in parallel mode. Bridge pickup can be out of phase in any position where it is active.

The 5-way switch for series mode is a double wafer (4-pole) 5-way Superswitch. It gives N*M, M*B, N*B, N*M*B, and, in the fifth position, your desired N+(M*B'). Again, bridge pickup can be out of phase in any position where it is active. The neck ON switch has no effect in series mode.

This arrangement does have one or two positions where a half-coil is hanging off the output. As wrnchbndr points out, this is best avoided if possible, although I personally have never found it to be a major problem.

NB: in my notation, + = parallel connection, * = series connection, ' = pickup out of phase

(This message was last edited by Te 52 at 11:43 PM, May 30th, 2018)

wrnchbndr

New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
May 30th, 2018 08:31 PM   Edit   Profile  

I remember doing some odd Gibson that had 3 of those those clear resin single coils with a rotary switch. It had some real off the wall switching by design and it did leave a half coil open in one or two of the positions without a problem -- I thought it should have caused a problem.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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A dog

in a cake shop
May 30th, 2018 10:05 PM   Edit   Profile  

Sounds like the maple S1 model, with the three pickups and harmonica bridge. Bill Lawrence designed that circuit for Gibson and provided his company's pickups for it.

This heavy beast.

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

May 31st, 2018 07:07 AM   Edit   Profile  

I'll be curious to see if the OP ever returns.



wrnchbndr

New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
May 31st, 2018 07:46 AM   Edit   Profile  

Yup, that's the evil Gibson with the evil switching.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 31st, 2018 09:32 AM   Edit   Profile  

For all its knobs and switches, the S1 only produced five combinations. Could do the same thing today with one Superswitch.

"...I'll be curious to see if the OP ever returns..."

Yah, we may have scared him...

...off.

(This message was last edited by Te 52 at 11:36 AM, May 31st, 2018)

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

May 31st, 2018 09:42 AM   Edit   Profile  

Interesting how the three toggles are bound together.

External link

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 31st, 2018 10:10 AM   Edit   Profile  

"...Interesting how the three toggles are bound together..."

On that guitar, they *had* to be bound together. For jakezaaq's application, the switches could be separate and independent.

(This message was last edited by Te 52 at 12:16 PM, May 31st, 2018)

wrnchbndr

New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
May 31st, 2018 10:11 AM   Edit   Profile  

If you are going to put all three pickups in series do you thing it matters what order they are in the circuit? ...I don't think it would.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
May 31st, 2018 10:15 AM   Edit   Profile  

"...If you are going to put all three pickups in series do you thing it matters what order they are in the circuit?..."

No.


Peegoo
Contributing Member
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A dog

in a cake shop
May 31st, 2018 11:59 AM   Edit   Profile  

Bill himself considered the Gibson S1 as having a single pickup with three coils.

That's why the circuit is some really "outside" thinking.

wrnchbndr

New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
Jun 1st, 2018 08:42 AM   Edit   Profile  

I have created a diagram but I need to check it before I post it. Three 2-position phase switches, one 4PST toggle and a superswitch.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Jun 1st, 2018 09:58 AM   Edit   Profile  

Looking forward to seeing your diagram! If you drew a schematic in addition to, or instead of, a wiring diagram, please post it. I find schematics much easier to analyze than wiring diagrams.

I don't see the point of three phase switches, two will do. Putting any two pickups out of phase is the same as putting the third pickup out of phase.

(This message was last edited by Te 52 at 03:29 PM, Jun 1st, 2018)

Next 20 Messages   Newest 20 Messages

FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / My *All-Encompassing Tele* Challenge: #WIRING




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