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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / The whole rosewood thing...

Next 20 Messages  
reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Aug 31st, 2018 12:49 PM   Edit   Profile  

I get that there's additional paperwork and hassles now. I do.

I can even accept an upcharge for same.

But when I can get a $499 new current model year PRS SE ...with rosewood, and that isn't a clearance etc, or multiple Ibanezes with it, etc...

Why the absolute hell is Fender being so odd in being the folks who are abandoning the stuff across the board for anything not mid-range or higher US production?

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Aug 31st, 2018 01:04 PM   Edit   Profile  

It’s not *THAT* unobtainable. You can order rosewood fretboard necks from Warmoth any time you want. It’s one of the cheapest options, too.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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The man

in the shed
Aug 31st, 2018 01:11 PM   Edit   Profile  

I don't understand it either.

It's goofy.

I can get Indian rosewood from my local supplier, and it's not that costly.

stratcowboy
Contributing Member
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USA/Taos, NM

Aug 31st, 2018 02:02 PM   Edit   Profile  

Must be a conspiracy theory lurking in here somewhere. Surely one of the FDP brethren will come up with a good one.

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Aug 31st, 2018 02:06 PM   Edit   Profile  

It's not that Idian rosewood is unobtainable and the new regulations don't really change anything for guitar manufacturers who have been dealing with certification etc for a quite a while anyway so as I understand things there is little extra cost from that point of view.

I can only assume Pao Ferro is just cheaper, which may be the case. It's a great wood in it's own right and frequently looks prettier than rosewood (IMHO). If the primary demographic for those lower priced models doesn't care one way or the other it won't affect sales at all = more money for Fender.


Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Aug 31st, 2018 02:11 PM   Edit   Profile  

I agree about PF. It is a great looking wood for fretboards.

It must be a marketing/sales decision on Fender’s part.

vomer
Contributing Member
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Two layers bar tape

And a triple chainset
Aug 31st, 2018 03:42 PM   Edit   Profile  

I saw an ad for new Epiphone Les Pauls today with PF boards so it's not just Fender.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Aug 31st, 2018 03:50 PM   Edit   Profile  

I wonder if they know something we don’t.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Aug 31st, 2018 06:31 PM   Edit   Profile  

There's some switching at various points, but Fender's the one that has traditionally had it - and well, while I'm not adverse to alternatives....when the rest of the market is able to on Indonesian and Chinese models...I just shake my head.

(and I put my money where my mouth is, two of my Gibsons have granadillo fretboards. One is VERY red and light, one is darker and better looking that the average rosewood from the modern age I have around here)

But damn it, guys....if I can get a $500 PRS with rosewood...

gort9

usa

Sep 3rd, 2018 03:53 AM   Edit   Profile  

Well, there's rosewood and then there's rosewood. We're not quite at the 'rich corinthian leather' phase yet, but the days of plentiful genuine rosewood are more or less gone and they're using the name a lot more generically than they used to.

It would be interesting if the manufacturers would note the actual species that was used in a specific guitar, but there's little chance of that.

Wikipedia article on 'rosewood'

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Head down, ears back

Headed for the bar
Sep 3rd, 2018 10:40 AM   Edit   Profile  

"It would be interesting if the manufacturers would note the actual species that was used in a specific guitar, but there's little chance of that."

Determining the true species of a milled lumber is virtually impossible in the exotic woods market these days.

Unless you're buying your stock exclusively from a supplier that certifies the wood species, all bets are off. That's why most makers use generic labels like "rosewood" to describe a wood type.

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Sep 3rd, 2018 11:15 AM   Edit   Profile  

"Determining the true species of a milled lumber is virtually impossible in the exotic woods market these days."

Well, in principle guitar manufacturers can trace the provenance of lumber back to a specific forest and therefore should have that information. They've been doing this for years.

But a customs officer cannot be expected to identify by eye every subspecies, which clearly can look incredibly similar. Which is why the new CITES rules came into effect. It doesn't matter that not all Dalbergia subspecies may become endangered or are subject to illegal logging, only that enough of them are that all subspecies have to have import export documentation if sold across borders.

stratcowboy
Contributing Member
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USA/Taos, NM

Sep 3rd, 2018 01:15 PM   Edit   Profile  

Makes sense. But, back to Fender (or any other substantial manufacturer)...

You would think that because they still DO use rosewood on some guitars, they would have established suppliers who can give them the specifics of where the stuff is actually coming from and what it actually is.

So, again...we need a good conspiracy theory here.

;-/) LOL...

Bubbalou
Contributing Member
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USA

THE LOW END OF UPPER TEJAS
Sep 4th, 2018 11:27 AM   Edit   Profile  

I remember just 3-5 years ago. Gibson had a runin with the government over rosewood. They said it was ok for other countries to use it but not USA. I imagine it is pricey here now. Funny how one may look beautiful while another instrument is dark with little or no grain showing

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Sep 4th, 2018 02:33 PM   Edit   Profile  

"Gibson had a runin with the government over rosewood. They said it was ok for other countries to use it but not USA."

Not true.

Gibson bought ebony from Madagascar in 2008 and 2009 that they 100% knew was illegally harvested and illegally exported and they were willingly negligent in their responsibilities under a number of US laws regarding those shipments (25,000 ebony fretboad blanks in 4 shipments).

There was a separate investigation in 2011 regarding Indian rosewood and ebony. It was decided in that matter that Gibson had no case to answer and no action was taken against them. Gibson have been compliant with US and international laws since then.

More than 170 countires are signatories of the CITES convention and the same laws regarding traceability and certification apply pretty much all over the world.

budg
Contributing Member
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ohio

Home of the Goodyear blimp
Sep 4th, 2018 05:44 PM   Edit   Profile  

I had pau ferro on my srv that I used to have. Nice wood and it made a nice board. A lot of the rosewood is lighter today than a decade ago, sometimes. I have a 07 avri 59 thinskin with a very dark board , darker even than my 15 custom shop. I also have a 335 that is darker than my Lester. .

Bubbalou
Contributing Member
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USA

THE LOW END OF UPPER TEJAS
Sep 4th, 2018 09:48 PM   Edit   Profile  

Thanks Dr. Kev. That puts a whole new light on what occurred and makes more sense. I guess Internet information is subjective at best

musicalmartin

UK

Sep 10th, 2018 03:54 PM   Edit   Profile  

They would have a hell of a job getting them through European customs .So they dont bother.PF is fine.

jefe46
Contributing Member
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State of Jefferson

Sep 25th, 2018 11:22 AM   Edit   Profile  

PAO FERRO

AKA:

Caviuna
Bolivian Rosewood
Morado
and many other names

I have several very old, very large planks of Bolivian Rosewood AKA all of the above

SonicBlue

Sunbury-on-Thames

Sep 26th, 2018 03:27 PM   Edit   Profile  

Link to Andertons (large UK retailer) piece on Fender and pau ferro

External link

Next 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / The whole rosewood thing...




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