FDP Forum / K&K Mini question/ 13 messages in thread.
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| amphead4 Cincinnati, USA |
I'm thinking of installing the K&K Mini sensors on a new (to me) guitar. Maybe just the sensors only, wired direct to the jack with no preamp nor even the passive volume control.<br /> <br /> My current use is in a quiet church setting, playing with another guitar, piano and violin. The two guitars plug into an acoustic guitar amp, although when it was on the fritz we used a BF Princeton Reverb. It's a small sanctuary and all we are trying to do it get a good mix with the piano. If the piano wasn't so loud, we would probably just play unplugged.<br /> <br /> I don't anticipate playing at a loud stage volume or with a drummer. <br /> <br /> Is anyone using the K&K Mini sensors without a preamp? Do you find the Mini sensors by themselves have enough output? <br /> <br /> My old guitar has a LR Baggs Deluxe Acoustic EQ built in so I'm accustomed to having onboard access to EQ and volume control. I'm afraid I'll miss having an onboard volume control.<br /> <br /> Has anyone started with the Mini sensors and then found the need to add the onboard preamp later? |
| Tom B. Norman OK |
I had a K&K mini installed in my daughter's Martin 000-15. I play at church but I have not used her guitar there. Based on the output without preamp, played through an acoustic amp at home, I seriously doubt there would be any problems at all, especially in a small sanctuary. I'm sure someone here can answer your question with the direct experience you're seeking. Good luck. |
| Diogenes232 Contributing Member ***** usa |
I have basically that setup on my old Gibson Mandolin...works just great without a preamp.<br /> <br /> |
| TheProfessor Contributing Member **** MI |
I have it that way on my HD-28.<br /> <br /> Plenty of bass and output IMO, although I tend to run it through a bass amp. |
| Ragtop Contributing Member ******** The older the violin the sweeter the music. |
"Is anyone using the K&K Mini sensors without a preamp?"<br /> <br /> Yes. I've got the Mini in all 3 of my acoustics, with no preamp or volume control on board. When I was gigging, I went straight into the PA. I no longer have the PA, but now have a Crate Durango acoustic amp, which can go plenty loud.<br /> <br /> To kick up the volume for lead work, I use a Barber Launch Pad. The pedal works better than anything else; I used to gig with a Guild DCE-5 with on board controls, but it wasn't easy to get to the volume knob and back quick enough, sometimes.<br /> <br /> I did the install of the K&K on all three guitars, except for the drilling out the hole for the jack. That was done by a luthier, no charge as it took him all of 15 seconds. |
| amphead4 Cincinnati, USA |
Yeah, I would probably have plenty of signal without the preamp. But I think it's too risky to not have a volume control. There's a five minute silent prayer during the service and I'm afraid I'll accidentally ruin the moment if I can't turn down.<br /> <br /> To add a volume control, K&K's three options are (in ascending price order): passive volume, preamp with volume and phase switch and preamp with gain and eq controls but no phase switch.<br /> <br /> The pre with gain and eq requires adjustment with a mini screwdriver so I think that's too much trouble. But the one with a phase switch might be good if I play somewhere where feedback is an issue.<br /> <br /> But based on the comments here, I probably should save my money and just get the passive volume control.<br /> <br /> Thanks all!<br /> <br /> (edited because I always need to) |
| TheProfessor Contributing Member **** MI |
Or just pass it through a volume pedal. |
| Dadical Contributing Member ********** ** I am not a complete idiot - I have several pieces missing! |
I run the minis on my D-18 Golden Era. They are amazingly faithful to the guitar with lots of subtlety and plenty of signal for short runs. I go straight to the amp or PA with a 10' or shorter cord. If I have to be farther away I use a Baggs Gigpro DI. |
| Quackerjack Contributing Member ********* USA |
I have the minis in my HD-28 and Guild GAD30, and I go straight into a Roland AC90. I use for church in a similar situation as you, and I get amazingly natural tone with this setup. I have tried lots of other systems, and this is it...and it also happens to be the cheapest :-) |
| Vic Vega Contributing Member ******* Massachusetts Happy to be at the top of the food chain |
K&K recommends a preamp of some kind, but as you see, not everyone feels they need one to get a good sound.<br /> <br /> I use a LR Baggs Paracoustic DI and a Visual Volume pedal. It works and sounds fantastic. |
| Fro Contributing Member **** USA Froman |
Taylor makes a guitar cable with a built in volume knob on one end. I think I paid $25 for mine. |
| Steve Dallman Contributing Member ***** Merrill, Wisconsin Dangit! Hot weather. |
Piezo pickups of any kind will sound different depending on the impedance they are plugged into. Most need to see a very high impedance...around 5-10 meg ohms. Plug these into lower impedances and you lose low end and volume. <br /> <br /> The larger the mass of the piezo, the more low end it will have. K&K minis are meant to be plugged into 1meg ohms. Most acoustic preamps are much higher. Plug into a 10 meg input preamp or input and you will likely need to trim quite a bit of low end off the pickup. <br /> <br /> K&K mini preamps are 1 meg ohm input impedance. This impedance loads the pickup down some and tames the low end. Fortunately, most standard guitar amps and effects pedals are 1 meg ohm input impedance. <br /> <br /> The "high" impedance inputs of mixers and PA's are not very high...usually around 50k ohms...20 times lower than the 1 meg the K&K's want to see. High to low impedance transformer equipped adaptors (female 1/4" jack to 3 pin XLR) are even worse. The high impedance end of these are usually around 10k or 20k. 10k-50k input impedance is fine for most line sources, but are too low for passive instruments. <br /> <br /> The tone and volume of a passive piezo will be affected by the input impedance. Even a long cable will affect the tone and volume. The best thing about using a preamp or buffer on ANY piezo pickup is you will have consistent tone and volume after the preamp/buffer, regardless of the input plugged into, or length of the cable. <br /> <br /> |
| HeavyDuty Contributing Member ******** Northeast IL Not very bright but does lack ambition |
My K&K Mini experience is in an ABG, but the same comments apply.<br /> <br /> I never had any issues with the output, but if I were gigging with it I would definitely want a kill switch or volume control. The K&K picks up everything - rubbing your hand across the top, the noise from setting the instrument in a rack, whatever.<br /> |
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